Free Will and How To Enforce It
Clever, right? Imagine the market for a book with this title! What parent would NOT buy it when raising a teenager? Or yourself for example... say you were watching your dearest friend spiral down a path of self distruction... wouldn't you buy it to learn the secret of helping someone grow a brain before they mess up their lives forever? The thing is... people make their own decisions and we cannot FORCE them to behave the way WE want them to. If we did have this power indefinately over our children, they would never understand WHY they do what they do, or have a genuine opinion about what is right or wrong. They would not discover what is trully important to them. In short, we would all be someone elses Will in action... a robot.
Even Einstein realized that in order for his Theories of Relativity to work.. he had to add an uncertainty factor. Obviously we do have agency, it becomes a question of how much. Perhaps excersizing agency is a fine tuned skill! Many of us wander through life blindly without using it much. Have you considered how often your own agency has been affected by the manipulative tactics of others? With even more pointed observation... consider the the ways in wich YOU may impose personal pressure on someone elses agency without necessarily even realizing it... to acheive your own agendas.
I value my freedom!!! I want to protect it and keep it forever and yet I also recognize that in many ways I am not free.
Many variables contribute to making us unfree. Here are a few questions to ask yourself to determine if anyone elses FreeWill is being enforced upon you:
1) Are you living life, or is it living you?
-a Do you struggle to fit in someone elses standard, or do you make your own?
-b Are you living beyond your means financially? ( a.k.a In dept and BROKE!?!)
-c Is your day packed with appointment after appointment, so much that if you WANTED
to linger longer anywhere in the day... you CAN'T?
-d Are people telling you where you need to be and when, or are you telling them?
-e Do you have time to do the things you love to do, or is there a pile of it somewhere
getting lost and forgotton?
2) Do you fear being exposed?
-a Many people live their lives with an imposter complex. Perhaps they were dishonest
about their credentials when applying for a certain position. A person can feel they got
something too easily. Some of us fear we are not as talented as others think we are, and we
wonder when they will actually realize this..
-b Doing something that will hurt others has many humanbeings fearing exposure.
Fearing that a moment of truth will surely catch up to them. Harboring a secret
is always burdensome to your freedom. Revealing a secret may change other peoples
lives.. and KEEPING it may change YOURS...
-b Telling a lie! Supporting an untruth can keep a person pretty busy sometimes,
and has a tendency to get bigger.
All of these things contribute to a loss of freedom.
Another thing to consider...
ABILITY (or making things happen):
Are we free to do as we wish? How about playing the piano? You may want to, but if you have never had a lesson, you are not free to sit down and tickle the ivory keys making Bach and Mozart come to life. Ballet dancers train meticulously to fly across the stage with grace and ease. You are not physically free to do so just because you put on a leotard.. am I right? (been there, done that... doesn't work, even when you FEEL the music) If you want to go on an elaborate vacation, and do not have the time, money or sponsor to do so.. you are not free to experience that either. Certainly if you PLAN for any of these things... there is a possibility it can happen for you... provided you have the necessary body parts to do so. Add to the equation the appropriate uncertainty factor (healthy competative variables) and we realize that agency is certainly a key eliment to MAKING things happen.
Now.. there are other things we may 'want'... what if you want to take someones money from them so you can have it for yourself... or their car... or maybe it would be nice if they just no longer 'annoyed' you...? These things are crimes and if you DO them.. you take an enormous risk of being discovered and will be punished, thereby loosing freedom. If you get away with the crime you have a secret.. a lie to protect.. and you are less free.
So... with the things I have listed it seems that there are choices that we make every minute of every day that will increase our oppertunities and abilities... or diminish them.
Who then is enforcing freewill? Each individual to their own life. You are either living it.. or it is living you, because you allow that to happen. You are either making things happen.. or you are robbing yourself of oppertunities and freedoms you can only feel bad about not having.
posted by Rebecca | 7:32 AM
22 Comments:
You mention things which can limit one's freedom. The things you mention can limit a person's freedom but only their own choice.
If my freedom is limited by something external - e.g. being held captive against my will - have I lost my free will as well?
How do you see the relation between freedom and free will?
Can a person by physically unfree and yet mentally free? How about the other way round?
What you suggest directs us to freedom of 'mind' or attidude right? I did address these freedoms by addressing issues many struggle with in observing their own character and concience. Perhaps I was incomplete.. I will think about this some more.
To address the other part of your comment, if you are taken captive.. your physical freedom is taken away yes, and not by your own choice. If you are not under the control of a mad scientist, who has rendered you.. in some state of a coma... you should still be free to think your own thoughts, thereby working within yourself to keep yourself sane or giving in to madness. You can eat the food given to you to sustain life, or not eat it... give your captor the information they desire, do as they wish.. or rebel against their demands. You are even free if you should so desire, to excersize faith.. wich is an abilitly... and even pray quietly.. for help and strength in your imprisioned condition.
Now I am curious, what does 'free' in free will mean? Free as in 'anything goes'; free as in 'given the same circumstances I could have chosen to do otherwise'?
How do we make our free choices and is it possible the process by which we make our choices limits our free will to any extent?
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Free, as in there is the element of choice and you therefore have a certain degree of power,if you excersize it to direct movement in more than one direction. We make "free" choices by what is motivating us... be it concience, goodwill, desire or even selfishness. If you are suggesting we are a prisoner to these things... then I would argue that at any point we can and sometimes DO change our motivations and direction in life as human beings. That ablility to reason is where I believe the power of 'free' choice lies.
Do you think it's possible that free will is only an illusion as the circumstances surrounding the decision will always determine the outcome, regardless of the difficulty it will be decided because of the factors involved.
How can free will exist when the circumstances surrouning it are made elsewhere? Something forces you to take the decisions at the time you make them, therefore free will is just a buzz phrase that means very little.
You said: "Something forces you to take the decisions at the time you make them..."
I have three questions:
First consider who you mean by 'you' in the above sentence. Is this my soul, my whole body perhaps?
Then distinguish internal forces from external forces. If I send flowers to someone out of love what forced me there?
Finally if free will is illusory what meaning does the phrase 'making a decision' have?
I cannot answer the first questions each and everyone of us has our own perception when other people mention 'you' (about us). What do you think when I say you?
The second question: The person you are sending flowers to, whether they even like flowers or are allergic to them and then there are feelings that are the internal forces.
Thirdly: The idea of decisions of being an illusion is an interesting ones, but if they were the results of them would also be illusions, and I don't think that's the case, is it?
I think you mean the one doing (or rather not doing) the willing by 'you', i.e. the deciding agent. I think it matters what you think this is.
I think only in a very simple model of human behavior does a person I love influence me so directly. There is always interpreting and assigning priority to feelings (leaving in the middle for the moment how that is achieved). I think the internal forces are the key here. Those feelings, which are obviously influenced but not determined by the person I love, determine my actions. If we can agree that these are my feelings then does this not amount to saying that I control my actions?
So since the results of our decisions aren't illusory neither are the decisions themselves. Ok, but can we really speak of 'making a decision' if there is no choice involved? Afterall, a phrase like 'the apple decided to fall from the tree' is only use metaphorically no? If all our actions are forced, aren't we like the apple?
"Do you think it's possible that free will is only an illusion as the circumstances surrounding the decision will always determine the outcome, regardless of the difficulty it will be decided because of the factors involved." Hey Kevin.. what about the determining factors of the circumstances determining the factors?
One lil change here can ripple and affect the ripple you know?
I think you guys are going over my head... and I started this so GEEZ... speak English! LOL Arjan.. are you actually suggesting we have free will???? It sounds a lil like you are hinting that direction and I'm confused cuz you have always argued this with me! LOL
I think we are more free than Ragnarok seems to be suggesting but less free than you think.
'Free will' is really a strange thing. We want it to be free, i.e. not forced, but in order for it to be a will of any kind it has to be somewhat rigid. If we made totally different and seemingly random decisions all the time that wouldn't be much of a will would it?
So we want the power to make choices based on previous choices or as some would have it, character and we want these choices not to be forced upon us. I think such a conception of free will is possible.
Oh dear, I'm getting myself all tied in knots, this is why I never went into philosophy and chose politics instead!
Ok, my position is that we don't have free will. I don't believe you can measure free will in degrees either, we either have it or we don't. I justify my non-belief in free will by pointing out that we are all tied to the conditions around us, we have no choice in those. Like a two layered bubble, we can't change the outer bubble (our conditions - things that determine our decisions) because we are enclosed in the first one. (our lives - the places where we make these decisions)
Completely contradicting myself; I believe we can make small dents in the inner bubble, but we cannot shed the bubble and thus can't even reach the outer bubble.
I don't think I even understand what I just typed in...not an unusual thing for me, as you know!!
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hahaha well I'm glad I'm not the only one!
But I think Arjan is correct actually, it makes sense it is somewhere in the 'middle'. And I think the bubble idea is a good analogy actually. I hate to go quantum on you boys but... the principle of uncertainty suggests that there IS wiggle room.. and small things added upon make big changes. Those boys on 911 were free to choose to fly thier planes into towers.. and look at the ripple affect of NON free will in enforced on those who it affected. Is why I called this 'enforcing' freewill eh? it is a debateable topic.
Politics is LESS mind boggling than philosphy? And then theres lil ol' me trying to play in Quantum physics. It's possible that all three of us are indeed.. certifiably NUTS! ;-)
Of course those boys on 911 could have been brainwashed - highly likely when you consider the environment of fear that islam creates and the level of fanaticism in terro training camps, especially in arab countries such as Saudi Arabia. Then what of free will? If we are brainwashed, is our will just hiding from the world, or has it been forever corrupted?
Oh yeah, philosophy is difficult and so is quantum physics. I'm no good at equations and stuff so that's any kind of physics out and philosophy....well I did it at college, but like here I tied myself in knots!
Brainwashed.. well in the case of 911 I would have to agree that is highly possible. Do you suggest that we are all brainwashed then? Is there a Conspiracy out there? If so.. who is orchestrating it?
Indeed, we do not have full control over the conditions surrounding us. But I can, and do influence them and they in turn influence me.
Our will is what enables us to make choices. Choices influenced by previous choices, by experience and by our surroundings. But I wouldn't want it any other way.
Our will is as free as it possibly can be. If we can call ourselves free in our society I don't see why we cannot call our will free.
mmm...you say our will is as free a it can be, that indicates that it is restricited in some way. Either freedom is free or it is not freedom, to have restricted freedom - is it just not kidding yourself? Kind of like having everlasting life that only lasts for 300 years.
The conspiracy thing is something I have wondered from an early age. The beneficaries would be the conducters, but who exactly? Who would benefit from total control?
Do we only have free will if we use it all the time?
I think a lot of our actions are as you say, determined.
Then there are choices which we make, perhaps influenced by other factors, but our choices still. I think an action determined by me (be that my nervous system), constitutes a free action.
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